It’s just a lazy Friday afternoon before the long weekend, just wanted to start a little discussion. Reading Derrick Goold’s latest “down on the farm” report, it seems Adam Ottavino isn’t taking too well to throwing the 2 seam fastball. Says Adam-
“I know it’s A ball and I’m going to need to have something else when I get to the big leagues or even to another level. But it has been hard to adjust to the idea that I want the other guy to hit the ball. … I know it takes pitches to strike batters out.”
There’s already good discussion at VEB over the war over the sinker, but here’s a question I’d like to pose…if the Cardinals are so hellbent on getting their young arms to learn to “pitch to contact”, why do they sign so many college arms? Looking at the last two drafts headed by Jeff Luhnow, I counted 4 high school pitchers in that were drafted in the first 20 rounds. (Notable names, Shaun Garceau and Tyler Herron. Herron going the highest –supplemental first round in 2005). My point is, wouldn’t it be easier to get an 18 year old to accept the 2 seamer indoctrination then a 21-22 year old coming out of college who’s been already coached to throw fastballs and miss bats? Call it fear of Todd Van Poppel syndrome, but it seems to me that it would behoove the Cardinals to take more of a chance on high school arms, especially considering this upcoming draft, which is loaded with lots of promising talent this year.
Filed under: 2007 Draft, Adam Ottavino
erik
azruavatar
fewgoodcards
roarke49
theredbaaron
“the four-seamer is the kind of pitch that “gets whacked” in the majors, Palm Beach pitching coach Derek Lilliquist said”
this is the statement that i have a huge problem with. the braves have preached the 4-seam fastball for years and have been extremely effective. its not the pitch that makes it hittable, its the location. if you throw a 4-seam fastball where you want it is going to be effective and is not going to “get whacked.” even if you are throwing a 2-seam fastball, you still have to control it and place it where you want. just b/c it sinks does not mean it won’t get whacked also. sure, some 4-seam fastballs get hit a long way when they are up in the zone, but try throwing a 2-seamer up in the zone and see where it lands. the key is keeping the ball down in the zone and it doesn’t matter which type of fastball you are using.
i don’t think drafting high school pitchers is the way to go necessarily. if you want to be a 2-seam organization, draft pitchers that throw 2-seam fastballs. don’t draft guys like mark mccormick, chris lambert, and adam ottavino whose strength is a powerful 4-seamer then try to teach them to throw sinkers, draft guys like ross ohlendorf, justin orenduff, and justin masterson who were known for their sinkers coming out of college. one guy that they got right was tyler herron. he throws a sinker and gets a lot of groundballs with it. if that is your philosophy, draft it, don’t try and overhaul guys.
I absolutely agree, Erik. Assuming you don’t have one of the top picks to get a David Price type then drafting college arms to fill out your 4/5 slots and bullpen is nice and all, but you also need the high school guys so that hopefully you’ll hit the jackpot one day and get an ace. College guys are already in a race against the clock to get to the big leagues, when you force them to burn a year or two of development time teaching them a totally new way to pitch then you’re really putting them behind the 8-ball.
FGC, excellent points all around. Maybe they could just take more of a mixed approach…high school arms with some projectability and upside and some sinkerballers from the college ranks. they have done that some what with guys like Webber in the past.
Maybe there isn’t a shift in draft strategy because of the tension between Luhnow and TLR/Duncan. Luhnow, a business man, is looking for the best pitcher available, not necessarily one that would work well with Duncan.
TLR/Duncan may be on the way out of here sooner than we think, though, so is it really necessary to change our draft strategy?
(This is all assuming that Duncan is the one influencing the organizational preference for 2-seam fastballs, which I believe is true.)
I really dont like the idea of drafting high school pitchers. so maybe every once in a while you get lucky and have an ace, but you have to take into account how much money youre spending on an 18 year old kid who has only pitched in a handful of games in a high school season. is he gonna be ready to pitch? will his arm hold up in a full season? these are things you have to take into account. look at the 05 draft, tyler leach, josh wilson, and sean garceau are 3 examples of guys the organization spent a lot of money signing, but also a lot more for surgeries and rehab programs because their arms couldnt handle the amount of throwing players do during a professional season. are high school pitchers even facing equally proficient hitters? the way i see it, college pitchers put in the time to build up arm strength, experience, and gain competitive experience. these are the qualities that help a young player out. playing the game is the only way to make one better. throwing a high school kid out on the mound to face professional hitters is a whole new game. and in response to the 2 seamer or 4 seamer…as long as they keep the ball down in the zone, pitchers will get guys out. period.